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Old 5th November 2015, 16:50
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Default George Michael's coming out ruined his career according to Piers Morgan

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...an-Lassie.html

Piers is suggesting coming out as gay ruined his career. Maybe the way it happened wasn't great but does anyone think him announcing he was gay had any affect? I think it probably did a little in the US (but by then he was no longer a mega star over there anyway so maybe it didn't). Everywhere else I'm not sure it mattered at all. Things he has done since have been much more damaging, but just "being gay"...I think Piers is talking nonsense.
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Old 5th November 2015, 17:44
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So do I.
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Old 5th November 2015, 20:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parklife View Post
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...an-Lassie.html

Piers is suggesting coming out as gay ruined his career. Maybe the way it happened wasn't great but does anyone think him announcing he was gay had any affect? I think it probably did a little in the US (but by then he was no longer a mega star over there anyway so maybe it didn't). Everywhere else I'm not sure it mattered at all. Things he has done since have been much more damaging, but just "being gay"...I think Piers is talking nonsense.
Not dealing with his personnel issues and masking the pain with drugs and an unhealthy hedonistic lifestyle ruined Georges career, period. So much unrealised potential

Last edited by Notorious; 5th November 2015 at 20:21..
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Old 5th November 2015, 20:30
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Agreed, Notorious.
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Old 5th November 2015, 20:33
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Not dealing with his personnel issues and masking the pain with drugs and an unhealthy lifestyle ruined Georges career. Simple as that. So much unrealise potential.
I agree with the unrealised potential, and the fact the bad image he's portrayed of late will perhaps ensure he won't necessarily be remembered in the way he would have wanted (or should be if we just think solely about his voice/music). But has his career been "ruined"?; I don't think so - that suggests no one likes him any more - but he would still sell out a stadium or arena world tour in hours if he announced it tomorrow (which isn't bad going or a 52 year old bloke who has had the problems he has). He may not sell truckloads of records any more, but who does!...and as for being gay..who gives a f**k! I hate the fact he's always referred to as "gay pop star..." It's irrelevant
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Old 5th November 2015, 22:05
Onef*ckfantasy Onef*ckfantasy est déconnecté
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I don't think he'd sell out a world tour or a stadium as quickly as you think. Ticket sales were huge when he returned after 15 years, with 25Live, but now... the hunger from his core audience can't possibly be as high and it must have dipped off too among his wider audience. I would definitely have rushed to buy tickets even five years ago, now I'd most probably not - it would be the first tour of his solo career that I haven't rushed to see. I would perhaps be tempted if he announced that he was playing more intimate, smaller venues, but otherwise, no.
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Old 5th November 2015, 23:31
cowboysandangels cowboysandangels est déconnecté
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First off, Piers Morgan has never come across as exactly high-brow and he seems to have put little thought into this piece. I could easily expand but his comments are seldom worth it, so I won't. Besides, it's the Daily Mail - what do we expect?! Secondly, he didn't use the word 'ruined' - he says the record sales 'fell off a cliff'. I don't know the record sales stats, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's right on this point (albeit as someone correctly mentioned earlier, record sales nowadays are not worth anything like they were 30 years ago to artists.)

George was going to come out sooner or later - he wasn't going to be able to hide it forever - whatever George says or has said in the past, coming out as gay for a music artist (esp at that time) would have dented his commercial sales there's no doubt of that in my mind - and yes part of it IMO was that a fair proportion of his fanbase I'm sure would have been put off by finding-out he was gay - not all of them, but I'm guessing a large number. Not that he needed the money by that stage, but he still wanted people (fan or non-fan) to listen to his music and coming out was not in the interests of getting more people to listen to his music seriously. And yes I agree, the manner in which he came out was much more damaging in the end than the fact that he came out at all.

Anyway, that's my twopence, although it does feel like we've been here quite a few times before...

For me one of the tragedies of George's story is that so much of his professional career was filled with music from even an early stage (Careless Whisper at 17?) that suggested he wanted to be taken seriously as a singer-songwriter. With LWP he really set out his stall and this time even publicly-announced his desire to be taken seriously as a singer-songwriter. But with the manner of his public-outing it suddenly became very difficult for Joe Public to take him seriously any more. His driving antics have just taken even more credibility away in recent years. He knows that whatever he does now, people will always come back to these issues. That'll pretty much ruin anyone's career and means that the one thing he wanted so badly - to be taken seriously - is now one of the last things many people will take him as. That is genuinely tragic and sadly not much is ever going to change that now. When I think about it this way it doesn't surprise me he's had so many problems with depression and drugs. All he really has left now - and even that is in doubt - is the music. Hardly surprising he takes so long trying to perfect it, because the last thing he'll want is yet more criticism if the music isn't good enough.

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Old 6th November 2015, 01:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysandangels View Post
First off, Piers Morgan has never come across as exactly high-brow and he seems to have put little thought into this piece. I could easily expand but his comments are seldom worth it, so I won't. Besides, it's the Daily Mail - what do we expect?! Secondly, he didn't use the word 'ruined' - he says the record sales 'fell off a cliff'. I don't know the record sales stats, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's right on this point (albeit as someone correctly mentioned earlier, record sales nowadays are not worth anything like they were 30 years ago to artists.)

George was going to come out sooner or later - he wasn't going to be able to hide it forever - whatever George says or has said in the past, coming out as gay for a music artist (esp at that time) would have dented his commercial sales there's no doubt of that in my mind - and yes part of it IMO was that a fair proportion of his fanbase I'm sure would have been put off by finding-out he was gay - not all of them, but I'm guessing a large number. Not that he needed the money by that stage, but he still wanted people (fan or non-fan) to listen to his music and coming out was not in the interests of getting more people to listen to his music seriously. And yes I agree, the manner in which he came out was much more damaging in the end than the fact that he came out at all.

Anyway, that's my twopence, although it does feel like we've been here quite a few times before...

For me one of the tragedies of George's story is that so much of his professional career was filled with music from even an early stage (Careless Whisper at 17?) that suggested he wanted to be taken seriously as a singer-songwriter. With LWP he really set out his stall and this time even publicly-announced his desire to be taken seriously as a singer-songwriter. But with the manner of his public-outing it suddenly became very difficult for Joe Public to take him seriously any more. His driving antics have just taken even more credibility away in recent years. He knows that whatever he does now, people will always come back to these issues. That'll pretty much ruin anyone's career and means that the one thing he wanted so badly - to be taken seriously - is now one of the last things many people will take him as. That is genuinely tragic and sadly not much is ever going to change that now. When I think about it this way it doesn't surprise me he's had so many problems with depression and drugs. All he really has left now - and even that is in doubt - is the music. Hardly surprising he takes so long trying to perfect it, because the last thing he'll want is yet more criticism if the music isn't good enough.
Agree. It's all very tragic given his talent and potential. Only those that try to understand will understand. He is seen by many as a joke and that genuinely saddens me. To me he is a fantastic talent where circumstances have over awed him. Whether you call it weakness or flawed is semantics...ill always think of him in terms of the music rather than the extra curricular stuff. He clearly has a very loyal fan base who he has connected with over the years and who see beyond the sensationalist stuff. Some are fanatics I agree, and all artists have them, but I genuinely think he has a lot of support that is genuine love of his voice and music capabilities.
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Old 6th November 2015, 01:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onef*ckfantasy View Post
I don't think he'd sell out a world tour or a stadium as quickly as you think. Ticket sales were huge when he returned after 15 years, with 25Live, but now... the hunger from his core audience can't possibly be as high and it must have dipped off too among his wider audience. I would definitely have rushed to buy tickets even five years ago, now I'd most probably not - it would be the first tour of his solo career that I haven't rushed to see. I would perhaps be tempted if he announced that he was playing more intimate, smaller venues, but otherwise, no.
Will have to agree to disagree here. I think he has enough of a die hard fan base to sell out a world tour pretty easily. Whether the tour (or his voice) can ever be as good as in previous tours i don't know, but IMO, until he does a tour which people say is "average" or less, then i think he'll do just fine. I know some on here don't think Symphonica was good but the general consensus was that it was and his voice was great (and i'm in that camp - i like the deeper tones - voices do change, whether with age or for other reasons). Although he's not seen as a "classy" artist any more amongst the general public i think the music industry still respects him...and i hope that one day he will be recognised again as a genuine talent. Regardless of recent (or nor so recent) antics he deserves some long term recognition and respect. Not done the math but i'm guessing that there must be some longevity, sales, etc profile that has him up there as the most successful British artist of all time when compared with the ratio of his output- the old addage of quality over quantity. Cant think of anyone else who has lasted so long in terms of popularity with so little output. Just my opinion.
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Old 6th November 2015, 04:21
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I was wondering if GM were straight, what his status would have been even with all the attics. He would have likely been viewed as another superstar somehow at his lost weekends, which would have soon been forgotten. But in George's case, it seems to me that almost every article about him, the LA incidence is a must-to-be-mentioned story although it happened 17 years ago (and nobody got hurt). His audacity against Bush and Blair about invasion of Iraq was viewed as being foolish or how dare he express his political review, in contrast to some previous acts hailed as deep thinkers or leaders against establishments. It is hard to not get depressed for anyone by the obvious bias and ignorance. There is probably some truth that some media like the Sun wants to destroy him completely. Fortunately, the public esp in the UK and Europe have got it right and have stood by him during the last 30 years. This alone is an impressive feat considering the long gaps btw his outputs esp during the last 12 years. This speaks about GM's talent and also indicates that many people are actually quite smart including many of us on this forum.
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Old 6th November 2015, 08:52
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Will have to agree to disagree here. I think he has enough of a die hard fan base to sell out a world tour pretty easily. Whether the tour (or his voice) can ever be as good as in previous tours i don't know, but IMO, until he does a tour which people say is "average" or less, then i think he'll do just fine. I know some on here don't think Symphonica was good but the general consensus was that it was and his voice was great (and i'm in that camp - i like the deeper tones - voices do change, whether with age or for other reasons). Although he's not seen as a "classy" artist any more amongst the general public i think the music industry still respects him...and i hope that one day he will be recognised again as a genuine talent. Regardless of recent (or nor so recent) antics he deserves some long term recognition and respect. Not done the math but i'm guessing that there must be some longevity, sales, etc profile that has him up there as the most successful British artist of all time when compared with the ratio of his output- the old addage of quality over quantity. Cant think of anyone else who has lasted so long in terms of popularity with so little output. Just my opinion.
But with respect you are a fairly new fan, if I believe correctly - you may not have seen him live. Those of us who have been following GM closely since the eighties - in my case, since 1985 (Wham's The Final! was my first GM concert) have the perspective of his career over a long period. We were fans rights right through the fifteen or so years when he didn't tour at all, we keenly knew the extent of anticipation that awaited his return to the stage. We bought tickets for multiple dates because we feared this would be our one and only chance to see him live. And to be honest the GM camp certainly milked it, announcing new date after new date to extend 25Live - always with the promise of something 'special' and frankly not usually delivering (The Christmas date at Wembley, Wembley Stadium opening ceremony and The Final One - which didn't turn out to be the final gig at all, all at around £100 a ticket and barely different from the dates we had seen multiple times) Some of those gigs by no means were a sell-out. Particularly, there were plenty of empty seats at Wembley Stadium. The follow-up, Symphonica, did sell very well again but I would suggest more so from the perspective that it was billed as a more musical show, complete with a full orchestra at every gig. For some, myself included, it was a bit of let down partly because the orchestras were not as well used or as prominent as they might have been and partly because GM didn't seem on the greatest form (his voice seemed weaker, he appeared somehow a little less focused). Without fresh, convincing new album material at least, I can't imagine the same fervour for tickets. What might sway it, at least, is that GM has a greater level of curiosity around him because of all the bad headlines, which could attract a wider audience again, those more casual listeners who frankly think, well, there's a chance that this man won't make old bones, we'd better go to see him in case we don't get the chance in ten or twenty years' time. All that said, when GM was on form he was incredible and unforgettable. If you haven't seen him live I hope you manage to do so. Even in his (slightly) diminished form you would likely have a great night out.
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Old 6th November 2015, 09:58
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I also don't think he'd have trouble selling another tour - although still question if he is in any sort of state for it.

BTW I think Parklife will have something to say about being a 'fairly new fan'...
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Old 6th November 2015, 10:26
Onef*ckfantasy Onef*ckfantasy est déconnecté
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My mistake if Parklife isn't a new fan - and apologies if I have this wrong. I may be mixing them up with someone else. Even so, my view remains the same, I don't think GM has the pulling power to sell tickets like he once did.

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Old 6th November 2015, 11:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onef*ckfantasy View Post
But with respect you are a fairly new fan, if I believe correctly - you may not have seen him live. Those of us who have been following GM closely since the eighties - in my case, since 1985 (Wham's The Final! was my first GM concert) have the perspective of his career over a long period. We were fans rights right through the fifteen or so years when he didn't tour at all, we keenly knew the extent of anticipation that awaited his return to the stage. We bought tickets for multiple dates because we feared this would be our one and only chance to see him live. And to be honest the GM camp certainly milked it, announcing new date after new date to extend 25Live - always with the promise of something 'special' and frankly not usually delivering (The Christmas date at Wembley, Wembley Stadium opening ceremony and The Final One - which didn't turn out to be the final gig at all, all at around £100 a ticket and barely different from the dates we had seen multiple times) Some of those gigs by no means were a sell-out. Particularly, there were plenty of empty seats at Wembley Stadium. The follow-up, Symphonica, did sell very well again but I would suggest more so from the perspective that it was billed as a more musical show, complete with a full orchestra at every gig. For some, myself included, it was a bit of let down partly because the orchestras were not as well used or as prominent as they might have been and partly because GM didn't seem on the greatest form (his voice seemed weaker, he appeared somehow a little less focused). Without fresh, convincing new album material at least, I can't imagine the same fervour for tickets. What might sway it, at least, is that GM has a greater level of curiosity around him because of all the bad headlines, which could attract a wider audience again, those more casual listeners who frankly think, well, there's a chance that this man won't make old bones, we'd better go to see him in case we don't get the chance in ten or twenty years' time. All that said, when GM was on form he was incredible and unforgettable. If you haven't seen him live I hope you manage to do so. Even in his (slightly) diminished form you would likely have a great night out.
Yes, sure
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Old 6th November 2015, 11:29
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Quote:
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My mistake if Parklife isn't a new fan - and apologies if I have this wrong. I may be mixing them up with someone else. Even so, my view remains the same, I don't GM has the pulling power to sell tickets like he once did.
I did just spend 30 mins writing a 4/5 paragraph response about my 32 years of following George! ...but when i posted it, it disappeared. Maybe it's the GMF self editing system LOL.

Anyway i can't be bothered to write it again, suffice to say that over these past 32 years i've had my ups and downs with the man, but never the music...and ultimately it was the music that has kept us all around waiting (and waiting and waiting). The "sexy" "gorgeous" "classy" etc etc bit disappeared quite some time ago, so why are we all still here? His fans are undoubtedly the most loyal there are (and they have to be - god knows he's given them enough excuses over the years to walk away).

But i guess what i'm trying (badly) to say is that he clearly has built up something very strong with his fan base that just seems incapable of being broken now, no matter what is thrown at it and by who; the press or himself. So, i still think he could still sell out tours relatively easily - they may not be stadiums perhaps, but hell, the Royal Albert Hall and the like are hardly pub venues. As for the quality in the future, i don't know. Vocally he is often stunning but equally he has been known to be a bit ropey on occasion - who knows what a big hole being made in your throat and years of puffing can do....but people will still go and see him no matter what IMO. Lets just hope he sorts himself out and tries again. In the right frame of mind i do believe he can be awesome (i just hope it's with new material next time).

Anyway, time to work...have a good Friday all.
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